I’ve been attacked by a “Form Nazi” on YouTube….
Normally, I don’t engage but I was feeling playful that day. And since I think it was instructive (except to the troll of course) I’m sharing the debate with you below.
The video in questions was “How to Snatch Heavier Kettlebells” which you can see here.
In the video I talk about some tips on snatching that can be used for heavy weights. And I demonstrate it by snatching a 60kg or 132 lb. kettlebell. At a bodyweight of 185 lbs. its showing what I’m saying works.
The common comments on there are along the lines of…
“WARRIOR! Never seen someone with your body-type snatch bells that are so heavy!! Inspiring!”
“Some really good tips here, thanks “
“Good advice!”
But not for the “Form Nazi”. Here’s the back and forth…
Form Nazi – Wow, you have really bad form.
Logan – Please do share a link of you snatching the 60kg kettlebell with perfect form…
Form Nazi – You share a link of yourself snatching any weight with even good form. Your ego is going to get people hurt.
Logan – That’s what I thought. Enjoy your armchair. But just to show I’ll answer your request while you won’t answer mine, here’s one done in competition, i.e. being judged by rules for the form:
Form Nazi – Yeah, that’s 24kg and your lockout and drop could use work, but the form there is so much better than with what you’re doing in these videos. And, look.. if you can’t handle criticism, maybe posting on YouTube isn’t for you. And I can comfortably snatch 40kg. Don’t get hurt, bud!
Logan – You’re silly. You say “share a link of yourself snatching any weight with even good form” and then you criticize that I share a video with a lighter weight. Of course the form is different between 24kg and 60kg. Again, I’d like to see you do 60kg in any form. I know you won’t because you can’t. If you can’t back up your criticism maybe posting trolling comments on YouTube isn’t for you.
Form Nazi – Your form is still not great, my dude!
Logan – You see, you and I think about form differently. You think its all about protecting yourself which is why you think I’m going to hurt myself. I’ve snatched tens of thousands of reps and can only remember hurting myself once doing them which was in my first two years of training (not including the blisters of course). While form has its uses in injury prevention, you don’t understand that form is also about progression. This is why I can snatch a 60kg kettlebell and you can’t. You’re so blindly by your “form nazi” beliefs that you can’t even understand what I’m saying in this video.
Form Nazi – That’s a wildly irresponsible and ignorant thing to say. You WILL get people hurt. Reckless.. I’ll throw in reckless, too.
Logan – The facts are not in your favor because I help people get out of pain far more than get them into it. You’re the kind of person that would criticize Bob Peoples deadlifting technique…when he was one of the greatest ever to live. But I doubt you’ve heard his name because of ignorance. Don’t dare go watch another example, Lamar Gant deadlift here, it might make your head explode.
How dare these people not have perfect form!!! How dare they set world records with round back deadlifts!!! Don’t they know people might look up to themselves and hurt themselves?!? They’re so irresponsible!!!
Form Nazi – Yeah, that’s a whole lot of word salad. Your view is “negate form to put up big weight.” Anything you have to say beyond that is irrelevant. Anyway.. I’ll end this by saying.. Congratulations. You’ve accomplished something by doing it terribly.
Logan – I’ve snatched hardstyle. I’ve snatched GS. I’ve developed my own style and tricks for snatching faster and heavier. I could do anything you’d ask me to do form-wise because I have flexibility in my form. You on the other hand are so form-bound you couldn’t do half of what I would offer without struggle. And you couldn’t match my performance. Meanwhile, I’m more than matching your safety. I would more accurately describe my form as “Utilize form as a tool. Know when to use it, and when to break the rules safely.” Your inability to understand the difference is the problem here.
Again, I wouldn’t normally engage in debate but I did so because I thought this might be fun to share with you.
Form obviously has its importance.
But it isn’t the panacea of not getting hurt that so many people claim. It is easily falsifiable by the facts that:
- Some people do horrible form (aka Bob Peoples, Lamar Gant, myself, etc.) and don’t get hurt doing so.
- Some people do perfect form and still get hurt.
But the “Form Nazis” never learn.
When you are starting out training, absolutely learn good form and why it exists.
When you are intermediate to advanced you can start to learn when form is thrown out and how you can do it safely.
As I ended with there…
Utilize form as a tool. Know when to use it, and when to break the rules safely.
Comments
Logan, you are 100% correct in everything you said. The ‘he-she’ Nazi apparently hasn’t had their manhood drop yet. Don’t waste another minute with a POS like that. An energy vampire and a loser, period!
Thank you for your videos! Keep up the great work!
Your use of racial slurs is as ignorant as it is disgusting. If your trying to describe someone who dictates how someone else does things, terms like armchair coach, backseat driver, or even bolshevik work much better than “the other n-word”.
That said, your commentary was fine. Encouraging the “Form Fan” to run his own race, and not worry too much about others, would be better for everyone involved.
All that said, provided that your less-than-pristine execution is just the beginning of your GTG of the Snatch with heavier KB’s, then I find it encouraging. Better to start where you are, than wait for circumstances to be “perfect.”
How is Nazi a racial slur? Nazis were a political party. Is calling someone a Republican or a Democrat at racial epithet too?
National Socialism was the political party (National Socialist German Workers Party, or NSDAP).
They had their 25 point program (how many people have even read it?) and their own economic theory, which, when implemented, revived the German economy in 3 years, while the rest of the world was mired in an engineered depression.
They also ended animal vivisection and testing, and strongly dissuaded the German population from the evils of tobacco (Maybe add some of that background information to The Tobacco Playbook).
The term “nazi” was develop by one Konrad Heiden, a socialist, and it initially took the form of meaning the equivalent of “hick” or “redneck.” Basically, it was derogatory from the beginning, and not a single member of the NSDAP would have ever called themselves by that term. The more it has been used, the broader reach it has taken, until it has eventually been equated with more than just the German People. Now, ANYONE who is even mildly opposed to the abomination that is the frankfurt school of thought, and is also of a certain race (though that’s hardly always the case), is a “nazi,” and the definition will only expand from there.
All that aside, I suppose my original point was that you can be a little more creative, than to simply repeat a slur so casually. It amounts to high school debate tactics, whereby the threat to ones reputation is designed to compel the other party to back down, rather than addressing the point of contention.
I don’t recall calling you racist, all I did was point out your use of a racial slur. Those are two very different things.
Hey Logan,
I would delete him/her at this point. Just sucking your energy dry.
Your info. is way too valuable for the rest of us who follow and support you.
We need you healthy…… 🙂
Cheers!
I agree 100% ! As a matter of fact, I wrote to you about this. When trying to do HSPU’s against a wall, with the “correct form”, I ended up injuring my shoulder. Prior to that, I was knocking out reps with the form I was using, and everything was fine. Same with DEADS, everyone talks about having a “Flat Back”, but most people DO NOT have a Flat Back, and still pull massive DEADS.., without injury. Like you said about Bob People’s form.., round back, no “belly air” ( as they say nowadays ), with a CURL GRIP.
The FORM NAZI’s are a JOKE. Most are people that do more talking than actual TRAINING, so they have plenty of time to criticize others. You got called a Racist for your reply to the FORM NAZI.., what a joke !
Keep it up, keep knocking down PR’s, and enjoying the journey. We APPRECIATE YOU.
You think being called on the use of a Racial Slur is the same as being called racist? When the “facts” one uses for their argument are as sloppily hashed together as the use of this all-too-common slur, one wonders at the level of personal responsibility the one using easily-disproven invectives feels. Simply an invitation to stick to what you actually know, which hopefully is strength and health, given the nature of this site.